More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner who has probably seen countless births so if she is surprised it's because it isn't something they see all the time not because she's taking a jab at men or whatever.
I don't think it can just be labeled as sexism though because they haven't given a reason or trait that makes men not be there for their partners. Some are in the room but keep their distance, some are right next to their partner, some don't even make it into the room .
“I, a corrections officer for a region in which there is a statistically anomalously high black population, express surprise when it turns out that the black inmate turned out to be innocent all along, because usually I don’t happen to see that happen, given the fact that all my prisoners are post-conviction, and am phrasing this as ‘when your black inmate ends up released because it turns out the prosecution messed up and they were innocent all along’ with an image of my face very surprised but don’t worry it’s not racist because I legitimately see a lot of bad black people”
Edit: also, pointedly, other commenters are saying that in the original video it was actually s response to the man getting slapped for saying this, and not about the man saying this, so the actual original person wasn’t being sexist but the person taking the screenshot was just some rando
If researchers did a survey of couples who delivered babies in US hospitals, and showed that most men were not engaged or supportive of their partners during delivery would you still think those results are sexist against men? Or representative of a a true cultural pattern?
Yes. It changes widely by region, but if you quickly google it it seems that reports say that men are involvement in childbirth is 40-66%. In postnatal care it’s only 25%. It’s probably getting higher with time but nowhere near what it should ideally be.
I'm always shocked to learn that any of my white friends have criminal records and even more so to learn that my black friends don't. But that's not racist, it's just a cultural pattern!
/s because half these commenters ate lead paint chips apparently
Edit: were you not saying that despite crime statistics showing that certain racial groups commit a disproportionate share of crime that it would be racist to act surprised when a member of one of these groups is not a criminal?
Relative risk vs absolute risk. When majority does something, I wouldnt fault someone. You arent biased if a majority does something, your realistic. When a small minority does something, and you lay it upon all the rest, your biased. Even if relatively, they do it more.
Yes, and that would be wrong based on what I wrote above. Also, a presumption of innocence is baked into the law system. This is simply because the stakes are so much higher.This high bar shouldn't be held for daily life.
There is no population where they have >50% crime rate (unless you are sampling from a prison). Nowhere near this. Thus, you are severely biased.
I never said they did. You're assuming my bias and applying a racist dog whistle to it, when I never quoted statistics. I simply asked for op and the commenter I was responding to, to treat gender as if they would race, and make the same assumptions and treat it, socially, the same.
No where did I quote race and crime statistics.
No one here has presented any statistics on fathers in the delivery room being supportive.
Everyone's arguments are just based on feelings and misandry.
Your argument that presumption of innocence is baked into the law system but shouldn't be baked into daily life is flawed and biased.
If researchers did a survey of couples who delivered babies in US hospitals, and showed that most men were not engaged or supportive of their partners during delivery would you still think those results are sexist against men? Or representative of a a true cultural pattern?
The "results" are not sexist against men. The outcome of studies are just objective observations of data.
In a similar way, if a research study shows higher rates of crime among populations of people of color, the "results" of the study are not racist.
However, if you are a person that goes around acting surprised when you see a person of color that is an upstanding law-abiding citizen? Then YES, YOU ARE A RACIST.
It is not complicated, so I am not sure why it is so hard for you to understand basic examples of sexism or racism.
They'll claim sexism. Men on reddit will pull every single one of their teeth out without anesthesia before ever admitting that the statistics against them are accurate, or that every woman on earth cannot possibly all be lying about the same exact things lmfao. Don’t even bother. They'll compare it to racism and incarceration rates, but never mention the race of the cops and judges that arrest and convict them.
false equivalency. the woman in the screenshot is not just pointing out an issue that she has noticed in her field, but what she is noticing is directly related to sociological forces that have been studied. the reason men may be neglectful during childbirth is due to various patriarchal norms set for men. it's not sexist to point it out. these same patriarchal norms also hurt men, too. i mean, in your example, the stereotype of black men being inherently more dangerous/criminal is one that comes from white supremacy baked into our culture, and black men experience statistically high rates of false convictions. what the person in your "example" is surprised by, is not statistically reasonable to be surprised by. also, this is literally just another example of patriarchy. that stereotype, and mass incarceration, exist at the intersection between patriarchy and white supremacy as who is considered "dangerous", who needs to be "protected", and who needs to "protect", are all gendered norms that are heavily racialized.
"but what if it was reversed" is not a good argument when the group being criticized holds a position of power and privilege over the group doing the criticizing. you don't have to agree with it or like it, you can think it's wrong, but it's objectively not the same. one group's words carry more weight and contribute to oppression, one group's words just might offend you.
They’re building what’s called an analogy. They present a hypothetical meme that would clearly be racist and sexist against black men. It’s structured the same way as the meme in the original post because this makes it really easy to see the meaning of the analogy.
After parsing the analogy, you should agree that yes, that would clearly be both racist and sexist against black men. It should logically follow that the original meme is clearly sexist against men.
She’s shocked because she has a preconceived expectation of how men are going to behave. That’s objectively sexist. She doesn’t get a free pass just because she sees it all the time, that just means her profession has nurtured a sexist perception.
Thank you for explaining my analogy! Small point of order, though, but according to other commenters the nurse from the video was actually reacting to the wife slapping her husband for saying so, rather than acting surprised at a man being supportive, so the nurse has been getting a lot of heat for something the screenshotter obfuscated
That would be an apt comparison if it weren't for the whole systemic oppression thing. And if you're up in here saying you're oppressed while your wife is pushing a watermelon-sized human out of her vagina...I can tell exactly what kind of guy you'd be in the delivery room.
Do you not think that social and cultural institutions are also responsible for gender norms? There's nothing biological preventing men from being attentive in the delivery room.
Black guy here and this is always the best comeback to that nonsense. Also just shows how normalized misandry is but people are still scared to be called racist lol
Lmao, this is a bot or troll farm response. It's posted multiple times here from different accounts. Remember kids, there is an active war on the US population to cause negative discourse and infighting to destabilize the country. Please read "unrestricted warfare" it's s book by ex Chinese generals discussing how they use the internet to destabilize the country.
See also: The Internet Research Agency, an agency formed by the Russian government for that exact same purpose that got outed for it before dissolving and having its parts shuffled about
You must live a great life in this imaginary world of yours. A few things to add context, what's your age, gender, families financial status, which country pays you to cause negative discourse in America?
But this isn't remotely the same situation? You are doing an apples to oranges comparison.
A CO's "data pool" of convicts is very different because there is a huge legal process to get there. That process is not fair, questionably accurate, and biased. But it is also quite extensive and driven by dozens to hundreds of people and choices before an inmate is incarcerated... that results in diminished agency of the inmates in a highly controlled, extreme environment (arguably cruel and unsafe) for sustained time.
A nurse's data pool of fathers is comprised of... Men who got a woman pregnant. So yes there's still a selection bias at play here in who women are copulating with, what women have access to family planning methods vs don't... but there's quite a bit more agency of a man in the hospital room than a man who has been incarcerated by the state after hundreds of people have decided so and then condemned that person in an exteme environment for years. Because at the end, the father at the hospital gets to just go home. And also the women are undergoing a major acute medical event and could die, whereas prison behavior is not always (or even often) informed by an acute medical event of two loved ones simultaneously.
So a nurse's access to a reasonable average of behavior is far more representative than a COs. If you wanted to argue that two nurses between two zip codes (one wealthy and one poor) might experience different patient behavior or something that doesn't extrapolate to all people, I could get behind that argument. Because I'm not even arguing about whether men are disengaged or not during labor. I'm just arguing that your argument doesn't work for your stated claim. These are two distinct groups and the issues of racism and bias in the prison industrial complex or of misandry and misogyny in labor are not benefitted by being compared to eachother as they trivialize the other in key areas.
**
Not even mentioning the huge inherent self selection biases of people who decide to become COs vs nurses OR the commonly understood (though problematic) cultural expectations of those professions (punishment/guarding/safety profession vs healing/helping). And the personal story these professions tell themselves and how that impacts their perception of people.
CO: I'm here to protect society from the "bad people." And they were deemed bad by a hundreds year old system I don't understand by dozens of other people. And who am I to question that? Because if I think the system might be flawed, then maybe I'm a bad person for being a CO... or maybe I'm bad for not being hard on crime.
Nurse: I'm here to heal people. Healing is a good thing. Maybe I'm not always at my best and I don't know everything, maybe medical procedures have biases in them that hurt people... but in questioning those, I am still healing people.
There is a bias in the data when all the people are post-conviction, the correction officer is racist for being surprised it happens to a black person when a prisonner being innocent is just rare in general.
But for the nurse to be sexist, it's that when she is surprised that a male partner is supportive, she should actually be surprised when any gender partner is supportive. For that to be true, the idea that all gender partners accompanying mothers to give birth generally suck, not just men, has to be true.
We don't know that, unless there was research, and we shouldn't conclude it too quickly.
The circumstances for same sex couples are different enough that the statistics of this type of thing could differ rather significantly. For one, it isn't possible for cis same sex couples to have a baby by accident, and they are the majority since trans people are rare. That influences a lot. E.g., scenarii where the mother becomes trapped with a bad partner due to a surprise baby don't really occur. It is also a rather long process to have a baby for same sex cis couples, and a lack of involvement of the partner would be noticed earlier.
It would be interesting to know how many people where innocent and it was never found out. Just look at the innocence project. Before someone looked into it, all those people were a statistic in a prison officers mind.
Don’t get me wrong, most inmates are there because they are guilty. But can we ever truly know the true rate of false convictions. Just like crime rates are based on reported crimes. Can we ever truly know how many were unreported
Why though? Roughly half of all black people are men, and I’m not sure that black men care which of their demographics someone cites to tell them about their statistical likelihood of being a deadbeat husband/parent. That’s intersectionality for you
But ultimately, my point is not that black people are like this or deserve this or anything else, I just find that there are a lot of biases that are very normalized in society for this or that reason, to the point we don’t really take them seriously, but that by swapping out who the bias is directed at then the normalization falls away and we see what’s wrong much more clearly
I’m also not saying all this to say “men are oppressed” or something. There are definitely ways in which society roughs men up, like how showing vulnerability is often overly stigmatized or somesuch, but that doesn’t mean men are oppressed
I’m just saying that the joke really is sexism. Like, if other comments are to be believed, the nurse wasn’t actually expressing surprise at a man being supportive, but at something else in the video, so the original joke wasn’t sexism, but whoever took the screenshot to make it look like sexism out of context was- like, their joke was sexism
This a bizzare and very misguided metaphor that doesn't work at all. Men aren't oppressed on a systematic way due to their gender and the few things that do negatively effect men exclusively on the basis of gender is always a microcosm of misogyny because whether you like it or not society has heavily catered to men. Some men are oppressed, but it's never because they're men, but because they're apart of another minority group that is mistreated by society. Comparing anecdotal experiences of men being absent / neglectful parental figures to the prison system feels overdramatic and comes off like a post Elon Musk would retweet to own the libs
I disagree. I don’t think most black guys have a preference for being told they’re statistically more likely to be deadbeats in the delivery room specifically because they’re men compared to being told they’re statistically more likely to be deadbeats in the delivery room specifically because they’re black
Okay, but no one is telling men they're deadbeats in the delivery room? That's not what this post is about, and this doesn't happen.
If you need to imagine a bizaree convoluted scenario for the point youre trying to make even have a chance of making sense, then the argument you're trying to make is probably really dumb and poorly thought out.
Again, no body is telling black men they're deadbeats in the delivery room, or in any medical/real life doctoral setting. The only reason we're even talking about it is because people in this thread missed the entire point of the original post because they got so caught up in an imaginary slight against men that the evil nurse made by daring to hypothetically make a critique about meaning being more likely to be deadbeats, which for clarity was never actually said and only originated from dudes in this thread who missed the point entirely.
If you think this is even remotely comparable to systemic racism or the industrial prison complex, which is the point you tried to make in your comment, is an insanely stupid thing to believe. Again, I want to clarify, the comparison being made here is that saying men are deadbeats is comparable to state sanctioned slavery that targets minority groups, that's the point youre trying to be make here, that's just straight r worded bro.
Black people is not an equal comparison to men. Women hating on men is the oppressed punching up. White people hating on black people is the oppressors continuing to oppress
Do you think black guys prefer being told they’re statistically worse partners/parental figures because they’re men or because they’re black? I’d just hate to be impolite, you see. So which of their demographics do you think they’d be more ok with me attributing that stereotype to when I mention their statistical likelihood of being a deadbeat in the delivery room to them?
Way to fail to understand what racism is fundamentally and how it affects people. You got your feelings hurt because you blame your ex “hating men” for the failed relationship.
This meme does absolutely nothing to harm anyone and should never be compared to racism.
You managed to show us how you’re both misogynistic and racist all in one conveniently bundled package though so I guess be proud about it. Easier for me to spot.
Yeah, it’s like calling women drama queens. Since men agree most women are drama queens, calling them drama queens is not sexist.
Except of course it’s sexist.
Both of the above is sexist.
Most men stay with their wife / girlfriend when she’s giving birth and show her support. Don’t know a single father who hasn’t unless he didn’t make it in time. Those who can’t make it regret it their entire lives.
Why is your anecdotal knowledge of the handful of fathers you know and how they behaved in the delivery room more valid or accurate than the repeated daily observations of someone who works in labor and delivery on a daily basis, seeing multiple patients a day, presumably for years?
Because I've also spent years working in hospitals and have my own contradictory anecdotal evidence.
Now you have to decide...are you just going to pick the version that confirms your pre-existing bias - in which case this is all in bad faith - or perhaps actually ignore all anecdotal stories and assume there is some sort of availability bias at play across all parties?
I ran a diabetes clinic, meaning i hired that same health staff.
And you know what, there are a shitload of nurses who are anti-vaxxers. So again, you want to just believe the ones who conform to your bias? or maybe actually look at real data?
Yes, that’s exactly my point. They’re both anecdotal evidence, so why is he so quick to say that her anecdotal evidence is incorrect sexist nonsense, but his incredibly vague anecdotal evidence of I haven’t personally seen that so it never happens is enough to say that “most men are present and show support”.
And honestly, yeah if I’m going to take someone’s anecdotal evidence more seriously, it’s the nurse’s. Where does everyone seem to think this unbiased objective empirical evidence on this question would come from exactly? Surveying men and saying “were you supportive?” Is that unbiased? Are unsupportive men likely to answer that question honestly? Are you willing to take the women’s word for it whether their partners were supportive enough? That might be biased too. At least nurses are 3rd party observers who see a huge number of these events over a wide cross section of people.
You mean the nurse that most likely doesn’t even exist? The one this meme made up for another gender war slop meme? Is that the person who’s worked in labor and delivery for years you are referring to?
Are you being deadass? Thats exactly what they do. Everyday i see a "headline" thats just a meme with an AI pic/video and an entirely madeup scenario attached. To take it a step further I'm finding entire accounts meant to make "content" featuring a person that is entirely AI.
In this the case the screenshot is deliberately taken out of context and the "nurse thats seen a bunch of dads be unsupportive" is a fabrication because thats not what this woman was saying at all.
I think those situations aren't equal at all.... One is an insult towards women in a derogatory way and the other is surprise at a difference in streotype/prejudice.
Use a better example like: It's like finding out a woman wants to go back to work immediately and the dad is quiting his job to raise the baby and do the housework.
Both are sexisim (showing a prejudice) but your example was not on equal footing at all....
And also confusing >> calling them drama queens is not sexist. Except it is sexist
I'm not saying bad people don't exist I'm saying the joke is that the nurse is surprised that a man is active in child birth and parenting. Same with a surprise that woman will be going back to work and the dad stays home.
They're both scenarios that defy parental expectations. Both can be taken as an insult to character, none is calling the other a known insult that mocks the emotional intelligence of one gender.
The person's example was inappropriate in the scenario as they're not comparable situations. We don't need to insult women to make a point...
What is your argument. It seems like you're fighting this because you believe that women don't face any adversity at all. And men must be the victims in this. That's my strawman argument because why are people so desperate to prove me wrong when never even said "this isn't a sexist joke" I THINK IT IS SEXIST however the comparison the man used was not a good comparison. It was shit.
Im not arguing to change your mind, I'm just stating that calling women drama queens =/= men being stereotyped as inattentive during fatherhood
They're not balanced comparison. They're two completely different situations that should not be compared in this discussion.
Most men are present for the birth now but this is a massive cultural shift from 20 years ago when most were not present. And given the cultural shift in which men are getting partnered (“male loneliness epidemic”), it makes sense that mostly better quality present men are getting partnered and becoming fathers.
Those men who would’ve been less present are now complaining about being lonely.
Just as you've only had experience with the father's actually being there there are plenty of people including myself who have seen the opposite where the father just straight up never showed up because it turns out they're not exactly a great person
Her being positively surprised would either mean it's uncommon in her experience or she just generally thinks it's good/cute. Both would be fair assessments when she's only sharing her personal professional experience. The point of the post may even be supposed to be wholesome by promoting the positivity of being a healthy couple. There's a bunch of possible explanation for the post that don't try to throw any shade.
The comparison to the "drama queen" thing isn't apt. Even if we take the post in a negative way it's still a positive thing being presented with a negative implication. I don't think that compares to a direct insult
Edit: scrolled down and apparently it's a video with a wholy different context so the speculation and accusations here are moot either way
There was an anime where everyone was going over their tragic backstories, and a character claimed her parents both died several years before her birth. Had to work in the orphanage coal mine on the day of her birth.
If it was based on anecdotal evidence from a medical practitioner who sees it every day, then yes the catsuit crazy logic would still work.
If an oncologist told me that by her observation most wives leave their husbands after a cancer diagnosis, I would find that information distressing but I would probably believe them seeing as this is their own experience as somebody who sees it every day
Person in medical industry makes observation using many repeated first party accounts, Redditor shouts “batshit crazy logic”. More news about how the sky is blue at 9.
That’s like getting pissed at someone saying most violent crime is men, and calling that “sexism!!1!”
But most fathers in Western countries are present for the birth of their children.
This study says that 99%(!) of fathers intend to be there for the birth of their children.
This article claims that one in five fathers miss the birth of their child, meaning that 80% actually are there. And of the 25% who aren't, "an unfortunate 12 per cent [...] did not receive the telephone call", and "around one in 10 absentees occurred because the mother-to-be did not want the baby’s father in the room", leaving only about 3% for aren't there for other reasons.
Oh yeah, and I'm sure that making one supportive comment drops the percentage from somewhere between 80 and 99% down to "so rare that the nurses are astonished to see it".
Post is dumb.
(You rarely see any dumb posts nowadays! It's astonishing to see a post this dumb, isn't it?! We shall remember this years from now!)
I work in tech, and 98% of engineers are men, it also astounds me when I see female software engineer. Only because it is specialist saying doesnt make it not sexist.
Seee . So does it astound you because they're women and you think they're incapable or because it's just not something you see often ? That's the difference I'm trying to explain here
Is me as an programming tech lead expert telling that women cannot do programming as i'm astounded when any of them will make any good work is sexist? This is just my experience. I'm an expert.
Well your statement is different as you are saying that women are incapable of doing it . Very huge difference from what the person I replied to said btw
Dawg, that's like saying a police officer can't be racist because "he has seen countless criminals" so it's ok for him to suspect a more racial group more than the others
Just because she is a nurse doesn't mean she can't be sexist.
I make a doctor express surprise that a woman can drive and do math, and suddenly it's not sexism because having a stock doctor photo over it makes it qualified and rational as opposed to just a stupid misogynistic stereotype unfounded in reality?
The joke is sexism bc it’s a stock photo of someone in the medical community. Best friend is an OB and asked her about this a while back. Her take is that it’s rare for a father to not be present when the father is involved in the mother’s life. Most mothers don’t want a sperm donor in the room, but will have a partner. Partners show up. Perhaps you’re thinking of select communities where this isn’t the case, but that could become borderline categorist as well.
So it's not possible that the medical practitioner is sexist and being so in social media? If someone is a professional you are not subjective and can't be wrong?
The post is sexist, it's the same thing as if a bus driver calling woman bad drivers or a manager not wanting to hire a woman because they "generate problems". Those are professionals talking about their area of expertise but being extremely sexist.
It's actually extremely common to see a man beside their wife at birth. It's the opposite that is blown out of proportion on the internet and gets upvoted.
its not uncommon. Having worked in many hospitals, nurses especially have a tendency to universalize their personal experience. Its one of the reason medical racism is still so rampant - people have preconceived notions based on some of the more egregious cases and just never update their priors even when disconfirming evidence is overwhelming.
There's also the issue of society at large being ok with denying men the existence of emotional interiority, believing that only the mother's emotional state is important to check-in on. So a lot of what is observed is fathers themselves coping with their own squeamishness about how real the process of childbirth is.
More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner
I doubt, that the person, who choose the image and wrote the text is actually a medical practitioner involved with childbirth specifically. Most likely the person making the meme actually IS a random person.
And even if it is statistically unlikely, for males to be supportive of their spouses during childbirth. I am not convinced without credible sources. But even if there was a credible statistic, extrapolating that to "All fathers" Is still sexism/misandry.I
For example, black and Hispanic people actually do have a higher chance of criminal activity. That is backed up by statistics of prison population.
Me extrapolating this to "All non white people are criminals" Is still racist.
And me then making a meme with the picture of a shocked looking judge with the text: When the black guy turns out to be innocent.
Doesn't make this more credible. Because I still am not a judge.
When did I demonize them. I swear it's like noone read what I said. Being present isn't even the main thing here , you would know that if you read the thread and didn't just jump in.
This. Also sexism is a system of power. Unless the power has been reversed, it is not sexism. So making a joke about men being "loser dads-to-be" is not sexist, just rude. Men have the power, even in this situation, therefore there is no sexism at play effecting the man. He's just whining.
It's sexist to expect a certain individual to act a certain way based on their gender just like it's racist to expect a certain individual to act a certain way because of their ethnicity.
But it's humor, let's just admit that yeah it's sexist but it's maybe funny for some people and move on.
Edit : I saw the other replies, I insist yes this is sexism even if it's related to a certain reality, and on the other hand I don't get why some men get so butthurt over this, there is plenty of boys Vs girls memes that are also sexist.
Ah also the joke of the video wasn't about that at all, the nurse is shocked by a slap noise in the original video.
It also depends on the hospital you work at and the type of patients they typically get. I used to work at a hospital that got all the indigent care outside the capitol county, and we had a high number of teenage pregnancies and single mothers because they tend to be poorer, be on public assistance, etc. So the number of traditional parents in normal reproductive age in two parent households were lower simply because of that - it was watered down by all the untraditional moms that it made the traditional parents seem like an oddity or rarity. It wasn’t.
Just because it happens a lot at the hospital she works at doesn't mean it's universally true. Medical practitioners can be demographically biased too.
It's....a picture of a someone dressed as a medical practitioner with a caption. There's no medical practitioner actually talking!
Also. Ferals are having more kids than more mentally stable people anyway. So absent or bad fathers are common, but it's not accurate to paint men as a whole based on them. Also added complexity of women conceiving children with men who aren't their partners. What percentage of children are actually being born to an economically and mentally stable mother and father, not heavy drug or alcohol users, who's father is the partner of their mother at the time of their birth?
Found her account and the pictures are somewhere in the thread.
Also the shock isn't necessarily about the dad being there but about them being actively present . Like it's not surprising that a man showed up like many think so here , it's surprising that the dude is that involved. I have also stated why it would be understandable by the way . Maybe you don't wanna interfere or haven't a clue on what to do . Noone's calling men bad people or whatever I've seen people defending here . It's just that it's surprising is all.
Also found the post and turns out the " joke " isn't what we interpreted at all 😅 . The person was poking fun at how the "it's ok " comment is so simple in a moment when the lady is literally ripping apart.
I thought the same thing when I read caption. I didn't understand how his comment made sense in the moment. To me, what he said sounded something like dismissive (wrong word, that's not his intention. But a kinda 'polite', not a really sincere thing)
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u/hopelesslysad7256 Apr 24 '26
More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner who has probably seen countless births so if she is surprised it's because it isn't something they see all the time not because she's taking a jab at men or whatever.
I don't think it can just be labeled as sexism though because they haven't given a reason or trait that makes men not be there for their partners. Some are in the room but keep their distance, some are right next to their partner, some don't even make it into the room .