Why is your anecdotal knowledge of the handful of fathers you know and how they behaved in the delivery room more valid or accurate than the repeated daily observations of someone who works in labor and delivery on a daily basis, seeing multiple patients a day, presumably for years?
Because I've also spent years working in hospitals and have my own contradictory anecdotal evidence.
Now you have to decide...are you just going to pick the version that confirms your pre-existing bias - in which case this is all in bad faith - or perhaps actually ignore all anecdotal stories and assume there is some sort of availability bias at play across all parties?
I ran a diabetes clinic, meaning i hired that same health staff.
And you know what, there are a shitload of nurses who are anti-vaxxers. So again, you want to just believe the ones who conform to your bias? or maybe actually look at real data?
Yes, that’s exactly my point. They’re both anecdotal evidence, so why is he so quick to say that her anecdotal evidence is incorrect sexist nonsense, but his incredibly vague anecdotal evidence of I haven’t personally seen that so it never happens is enough to say that “most men are present and show support”.
And honestly, yeah if I’m going to take someone’s anecdotal evidence more seriously, it’s the nurse’s. Where does everyone seem to think this unbiased objective empirical evidence on this question would come from exactly? Surveying men and saying “were you supportive?” Is that unbiased? Are unsupportive men likely to answer that question honestly? Are you willing to take the women’s word for it whether their partners were supportive enough? That might be biased too. At least nurses are 3rd party observers who see a huge number of these events over a wide cross section of people.
You mean the nurse that most likely doesn’t even exist? The one this meme made up for another gender war slop meme? Is that the person who’s worked in labor and delivery for years you are referring to?
Are you being deadass? Thats exactly what they do. Everyday i see a "headline" thats just a meme with an AI pic/video and an entirely madeup scenario attached. To take it a step further I'm finding entire accounts meant to make "content" featuring a person that is entirely AI.
In this the case the screenshot is deliberately taken out of context and the "nurse thats seen a bunch of dads be unsupportive" is a fabrication because thats not what this woman was saying at all.
Wow you're dumb. Comparing the difference in anecdotes between someone with say ten at most versus someone whose job it is involves them seeing multiple cases a day? "Hurr durr dey both anecdote"
You're still using the opinion of only one person, no matter how much experience they have, as a basis for making a sweeping declaration. Do you understand the various reasons why it's important to gather multiple data points? Her opinion is inherently biased, and I don't even mean consciously. Maybe she works in an area with a lower average income and the father isn't able to leave his job because it's the only thing keeping them afloat. Maybe she works in a particularly wealthy area, and that group of men is more likely to not attend childbirth, so her opinion is colored by that to mean ALL men are more likely to not attend. Maybe she works in a super liberal area that has many more queer couples, and she has an even smaller pool of fathers to pull examples from. Maybe she's only been working there for a week. Maybe she works during a time of day where people are more likely to have obligations that keep them away. Do you see what I mean?
You know literally nothing about this woman other than the fact that she's in scrubs. Even if she had 50 data points to the layman's 1, it's not anything close to a study, or accurate statistical data. Would I value her opinion based on her experience over mine? Yes, absolutely, but no one should be arrogant enough to say that their experience is unequivocally the norm. I would rely on data to form an opinion.
This one nurse is not the only source of this information. Many, many, L&D nurses will say that it is not uncommon for men to either be absent from the room, or, and what I am actually talking about, unsupportive in the delivery room.
For the record, I don’t doubt that at this point, a numerical majority of fathers are physically present in the delivery room. That is not my point, nor is it the point of the nurse in the OP post. It is that even when in the room, it is very common for fathers to be unsupportive.
It’s also more than a little silly to lecture me about crediting anecdotal evidence because it isn’t a sufficient sample size of empirical evidence, and then cite to a “study” that is literally just phone interviews with TEN MEN on their subjective perspective of the experience of being involved in the delivery process. If someone has been an L&D nurse two weeks they would be able to observe and provide more unbiased objective data on the presence and involvement of fathers in the room than that.
God I love when I say anecdotal evidence is silly and someone responds by telling me "well lots of people say X!" I have friends that are nurses, lemme call them quick, and if they say that they've seen plenty of fathers be present and supportive during the birth then your point is invalid right? Of course you could then find another nurse that says they aren't, but then I could find another nurse that says they are.
Granted, you miiiiiight be able to figure out another way to prove your point, like finding another nurse that says they aren't. Buuuuuut, by that same coin, I might just find another nurse that says they are.
And so on and so forth.
Yes those aren't the best studies in the world, I found them from 2 minutes of Googling, not even using Scholar. But you saying that a single person is going to be able to provide an unbiased point of view is already ridiculous, let alone that you're saying you'll take their opinion formed over the course of 2 weeks as gospel. I mean this feels like stuff people were supposed to learn in high school. Anecdotal evidence is useful for guiding your research, not replacing it.
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u/General_Specialist86 Apr 24 '26
Why is your anecdotal knowledge of the handful of fathers you know and how they behaved in the delivery room more valid or accurate than the repeated daily observations of someone who works in labor and delivery on a daily basis, seeing multiple patients a day, presumably for years?