“I, a corrections officer for a region in which there is a statistically anomalously high black population, express surprise when it turns out that the black inmate turned out to be innocent all along, because usually I don’t happen to see that happen, given the fact that all my prisoners are post-conviction, and am phrasing this as ‘when your black inmate ends up released because it turns out the prosecution messed up and they were innocent all along’ with an image of my face very surprised but don’t worry it’s not racist because I legitimately see a lot of bad black people”
Edit: also, pointedly, other commenters are saying that in the original video it was actually s response to the man getting slapped for saying this, and not about the man saying this, so the actual original person wasn’t being sexist but the person taking the screenshot was just some rando
If researchers did a survey of couples who delivered babies in US hospitals, and showed that most men were not engaged or supportive of their partners during delivery would you still think those results are sexist against men? Or representative of a a true cultural pattern?
Yes. It changes widely by region, but if you quickly google it it seems that reports say that men are involvement in childbirth is 40-66%. In postnatal care it’s only 25%. It’s probably getting higher with time but nowhere near what it should ideally be.
I'm always shocked to learn that any of my white friends have criminal records and even more so to learn that my black friends don't. But that's not racist, it's just a cultural pattern!
/s because half these commenters ate lead paint chips apparently
Edit: were you not saying that despite crime statistics showing that certain racial groups commit a disproportionate share of crime that it would be racist to act surprised when a member of one of these groups is not a criminal?
Relative risk vs absolute risk. When majority does something, I wouldnt fault someone. You arent biased if a majority does something, your realistic. When a small minority does something, and you lay it upon all the rest, your biased. Even if relatively, they do it more.
Yes, and that would be wrong based on what I wrote above. Also, a presumption of innocence is baked into the law system. This is simply because the stakes are so much higher.This high bar shouldn't be held for daily life.
There is no population where they have >50% crime rate (unless you are sampling from a prison). Nowhere near this. Thus, you are severely biased.
I never said they did. You're assuming my bias and applying a racist dog whistle to it, when I never quoted statistics. I simply asked for op and the commenter I was responding to, to treat gender as if they would race, and make the same assumptions and treat it, socially, the same.
No where did I quote race and crime statistics.
No one here has presented any statistics on fathers in the delivery room being supportive.
Everyone's arguments are just based on feelings and misandry.
Your argument that presumption of innocence is baked into the law system but shouldn't be baked into daily life is flawed and biased.
If researchers did a survey of couples who delivered babies in US hospitals, and showed that most men were not engaged or supportive of their partners during delivery would you still think those results are sexist against men? Or representative of a a true cultural pattern?
The "results" are not sexist against men. The outcome of studies are just objective observations of data.
In a similar way, if a research study shows higher rates of crime among populations of people of color, the "results" of the study are not racist.
However, if you are a person that goes around acting surprised when you see a person of color that is an upstanding law-abiding citizen? Then YES, YOU ARE A RACIST.
It is not complicated, so I am not sure why it is so hard for you to understand basic examples of sexism or racism.
They'll claim sexism. Men on reddit will pull every single one of their teeth out without anesthesia before ever admitting that the statistics against them are accurate, or that every woman on earth cannot possibly all be lying about the same exact things lmfao. Don’t even bother. They'll compare it to racism and incarceration rates, but never mention the race of the cops and judges that arrest and convict them.
false equivalency. the woman in the screenshot is not just pointing out an issue that she has noticed in her field, but what she is noticing is directly related to sociological forces that have been studied. the reason men may be neglectful during childbirth is due to various patriarchal norms set for men. it's not sexist to point it out. these same patriarchal norms also hurt men, too. i mean, in your example, the stereotype of black men being inherently more dangerous/criminal is one that comes from white supremacy baked into our culture, and black men experience statistically high rates of false convictions. what the person in your "example" is surprised by, is not statistically reasonable to be surprised by. also, this is literally just another example of patriarchy. that stereotype, and mass incarceration, exist at the intersection between patriarchy and white supremacy as who is considered "dangerous", who needs to be "protected", and who needs to "protect", are all gendered norms that are heavily racialized.
"but what if it was reversed" is not a good argument when the group being criticized holds a position of power and privilege over the group doing the criticizing. you don't have to agree with it or like it, you can think it's wrong, but it's objectively not the same. one group's words carry more weight and contribute to oppression, one group's words just might offend you.
something being mean, hurtful, incorrect, or generalized is not the same as a systemic power structure upheld by generations upon generations of social stratification, social norms, institutional policies, physical & discursive violence, etc... me pointing out that women can't be "sexist" to men because it requires a position of power within social strata, and does not hold the same material consequences, does not mean i'm "justifying" it. i frankly don't care in debating about whether or not it was wrong because i don't even know the full context of the video, and even though i'm a man, i'm not a snowflake that gets butthurt when women make jokes. even if she is saying what people think she is in the video, i don't care because i know she's not referring to me personally. it's a tiktok. i'm just speaking sociology since that's my field of study and it's frustrating to see how much people refuse to understand how the world works because they think their feelings matter more.
One is a systemic judgement that may or may not be true and the other is a pattern of choices that free individuals make. Being happy that a father did the right thing and acknowledging that they see many fathers make poor choices is far from sexism.
That comparison is the same kind of victim card whining that obnoxious hyper « feminists » make
They’re building what’s called an analogy. They present a hypothetical meme that would clearly be racist and sexist against black men. It’s structured the same way as the meme in the original post because this makes it really easy to see the meaning of the analogy.
After parsing the analogy, you should agree that yes, that would clearly be both racist and sexist against black men. It should logically follow that the original meme is clearly sexist against men.
She’s shocked because she has a preconceived expectation of how men are going to behave. That’s objectively sexist. She doesn’t get a free pass just because she sees it all the time, that just means her profession has nurtured a sexist perception.
Thank you for explaining my analogy! Small point of order, though, but according to other commenters the nurse from the video was actually reacting to the wife slapping her husband for saying so, rather than acting surprised at a man being supportive, so the nurse has been getting a lot of heat for something the screenshotter obfuscated
Because people have an easier time seeing it as bigotry if a black guy is told his demographic makes for worse partners/parental figures when that demographic is “black” instead of “man”
That would be an apt comparison if it weren't for the whole systemic oppression thing. And if you're up in here saying you're oppressed while your wife is pushing a watermelon-sized human out of her vagina...I can tell exactly what kind of guy you'd be in the delivery room.
Do you not think that social and cultural institutions are also responsible for gender norms? There's nothing biological preventing men from being attentive in the delivery room.
Black guy here and this is always the best comeback to that nonsense. Also just shows how normalized misandry is but people are still scared to be called racist lol
Yeah it’s private, but if someone searches your username then goes to comment tab they can see all of your comments. They are lying though, but I can see all of your comments bro. Mewtwo is my favorite pokemon too😉
Lmao, this is a bot or troll farm response. It's posted multiple times here from different accounts. Remember kids, there is an active war on the US population to cause negative discourse and infighting to destabilize the country. Please read "unrestricted warfare" it's s book by ex Chinese generals discussing how they use the internet to destabilize the country.
See also: The Internet Research Agency, an agency formed by the Russian government for that exact same purpose that got outed for it before dissolving and having its parts shuffled about
You must live a great life in this imaginary world of yours. A few things to add context, what's your age, gender, families financial status, which country pays you to cause negative discourse in America?
You’re so close. The best comeback is pointing out how when it’s done with black people statistics , you (rightfully) view it as racism. But when it’s done with men’s statistics, everyone thinks it’s justified instead of (rightfully) viewing it as misandry.
Oh good for you, I'm glad you find our way to clump half the population together in your head, and feel untouchable saying bad things about them. It was a stretch to get there, but you did it!
I don't view race and sex the same. There are no singificant biological differences between people of different races that account for those statistics. They are social and political problems. There are biological differences between men and women.
I think a lot of guys in this thread are being defensive and are unable to comprehend the simple fact of what you've said. It's a shame since I'm sure most of them would quickly call a woman emotional in similar circumstances.
Yeah you definitely aren't a generalizing asshole. The aggressiveness of your statement is definitely on the level of my very benign comment. I'm very glad you have no problem tapping into your emotions!
What biological differences are you referring to, genitals and hormones? And you'd say those things explain most of the differences between sexes? I'd say definitely not. That would be mostly social and political. That seems about as biological as a black person having darker skin than a white person. In other words, it's not enough to really explain or help solve issues between races/sexes.
Advocating for biological essentialism isn't "nuanced" on any level in any context. That's the point of the analogies, but you'd say biological essentialism is fine when it comes to males? The difference is I don't think biological essentialism is ever okay. Whether you care about the morality is one thing, but it will also never reach the true answer of the source of sex/gender problems (or any problems) if biology is as deep as you go.
There's already a narrative that racial issues involve biological differences. The analogy is rather supposed to invite the idea that maybe biology isn't a satisfying justification for prejudice against males or any group. It has that cognitive dissonance if someone thinks it's okay to judge someone for being male. Race and sex are both some of the things we're born with and have no choice with. It has to be deeper than that.
Hey, do you think black guys tend to prefer to be told that they’re statistically more likely to make for worse parental figures because they’re black or because they’re men? Like, on average, which of their demographics do you think they prefer their chances of ending up a deadbeat be attributed to, ya know?
But this isn't remotely the same situation? You are doing an apples to oranges comparison.
A CO's "data pool" of convicts is very different because there is a huge legal process to get there. That process is not fair, questionably accurate, and biased. But it is also quite extensive and driven by dozens to hundreds of people and choices before an inmate is incarcerated... that results in diminished agency of the inmates in a highly controlled, extreme environment (arguably cruel and unsafe) for sustained time.
A nurse's data pool of fathers is comprised of... Men who got a woman pregnant. So yes there's still a selection bias at play here in who women are copulating with, what women have access to family planning methods vs don't... but there's quite a bit more agency of a man in the hospital room than a man who has been incarcerated by the state after hundreds of people have decided so and then condemned that person in an exteme environment for years. Because at the end, the father at the hospital gets to just go home. And also the women are undergoing a major acute medical event and could die, whereas prison behavior is not always (or even often) informed by an acute medical event of two loved ones simultaneously.
So a nurse's access to a reasonable average of behavior is far more representative than a COs. If you wanted to argue that two nurses between two zip codes (one wealthy and one poor) might experience different patient behavior or something that doesn't extrapolate to all people, I could get behind that argument. Because I'm not even arguing about whether men are disengaged or not during labor. I'm just arguing that your argument doesn't work for your stated claim. These are two distinct groups and the issues of racism and bias in the prison industrial complex or of misandry and misogyny in labor are not benefitted by being compared to eachother as they trivialize the other in key areas.
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Not even mentioning the huge inherent self selection biases of people who decide to become COs vs nurses OR the commonly understood (though problematic) cultural expectations of those professions (punishment/guarding/safety profession vs healing/helping). And the personal story these professions tell themselves and how that impacts their perception of people.
CO: I'm here to protect society from the "bad people." And they were deemed bad by a hundreds year old system I don't understand by dozens of other people. And who am I to question that? Because if I think the system might be flawed, then maybe I'm a bad person for being a CO... or maybe I'm bad for not being hard on crime.
Nurse: I'm here to heal people. Healing is a good thing. Maybe I'm not always at my best and I don't know everything, maybe medical procedures have biases in them that hurt people... but in questioning those, I am still healing people.
There is a bias in the data when all the people are post-conviction, the correction officer is racist for being surprised it happens to a black person when a prisonner being innocent is just rare in general.
But for the nurse to be sexist, it's that when she is surprised that a male partner is supportive, she should actually be surprised when any gender partner is supportive. For that to be true, the idea that all gender partners accompanying mothers to give birth generally suck, not just men, has to be true.
We don't know that, unless there was research, and we shouldn't conclude it too quickly.
The circumstances for same sex couples are different enough that the statistics of this type of thing could differ rather significantly. For one, it isn't possible for cis same sex couples to have a baby by accident, and they are the majority since trans people are rare. That influences a lot. E.g., scenarii where the mother becomes trapped with a bad partner due to a surprise baby don't really occur. It is also a rather long process to have a baby for same sex cis couples, and a lack of involvement of the partner would be noticed earlier.
It would be interesting to know how many people where innocent and it was never found out. Just look at the innocence project. Before someone looked into it, all those people were a statistic in a prison officers mind.
Don’t get me wrong, most inmates are there because they are guilty. But can we ever truly know the true rate of false convictions. Just like crime rates are based on reported crimes. Can we ever truly know how many were unreported
Why though? Roughly half of all black people are men, and I’m not sure that black men care which of their demographics someone cites to tell them about their statistical likelihood of being a deadbeat husband/parent. That’s intersectionality for you
But ultimately, my point is not that black people are like this or deserve this or anything else, I just find that there are a lot of biases that are very normalized in society for this or that reason, to the point we don’t really take them seriously, but that by swapping out who the bias is directed at then the normalization falls away and we see what’s wrong much more clearly
I’m also not saying all this to say “men are oppressed” or something. There are definitely ways in which society roughs men up, like how showing vulnerability is often overly stigmatized or somesuch, but that doesn’t mean men are oppressed
I’m just saying that the joke really is sexism. Like, if other comments are to be believed, the nurse wasn’t actually expressing surprise at a man being supportive, but at something else in the video, so the original joke wasn’t sexism, but whoever took the screenshot to make it look like sexism out of context was- like, their joke was sexism
This a bizzare and very misguided metaphor that doesn't work at all. Men aren't oppressed on a systematic way due to their gender and the few things that do negatively effect men exclusively on the basis of gender is always a microcosm of misogyny because whether you like it or not society has heavily catered to men. Some men are oppressed, but it's never because they're men, but because they're apart of another minority group that is mistreated by society. Comparing anecdotal experiences of men being absent / neglectful parental figures to the prison system feels overdramatic and comes off like a post Elon Musk would retweet to own the libs
I disagree. I don’t think most black guys have a preference for being told they’re statistically more likely to be deadbeats in the delivery room specifically because they’re men compared to being told they’re statistically more likely to be deadbeats in the delivery room specifically because they’re black
Okay, but no one is telling men they're deadbeats in the delivery room? That's not what this post is about, and this doesn't happen.
If you need to imagine a bizaree convoluted scenario for the point youre trying to make even have a chance of making sense, then the argument you're trying to make is probably really dumb and poorly thought out.
Again, no body is telling black men they're deadbeats in the delivery room, or in any medical/real life doctoral setting. The only reason we're even talking about it is because people in this thread missed the entire point of the original post because they got so caught up in an imaginary slight against men that the evil nurse made by daring to hypothetically make a critique about meaning being more likely to be deadbeats, which for clarity was never actually said and only originated from dudes in this thread who missed the point entirely.
If you think this is even remotely comparable to systemic racism or the industrial prison complex, which is the point you tried to make in your comment, is an insanely stupid thing to believe. Again, I want to clarify, the comparison being made here is that saying men are deadbeats is comparable to state sanctioned slavery that targets minority groups, that's the point youre trying to be make here, that's just straight r worded bro.
Black people is not an equal comparison to men. Women hating on men is the oppressed punching up. White people hating on black people is the oppressors continuing to oppress
Do you think black guys prefer being told they’re statistically worse partners/parental figures because they’re men or because they’re black? I’d just hate to be impolite, you see. So which of their demographics do you think they’d be more ok with me attributing that stereotype to when I mention their statistical likelihood of being a deadbeat in the delivery room to them?
Way to fail to understand what racism is fundamentally and how it affects people. You got your feelings hurt because you blame your ex “hating men” for the failed relationship.
This meme does absolutely nothing to harm anyone and should never be compared to racism.
You managed to show us how you’re both misogynistic and racist all in one conveniently bundled package though so I guess be proud about it. Easier for me to spot.
I'm trans, but I was raised as a boy, and there's just so much to unpack from that upbringing. From being made to believe that men are the ones who should be sacrificed in dangerous situations, that they're implicitly violent, that vulnerability is bad, that men are always going to be shitty dads and shittier husbands and your life as a future fuckup is inevitable.
I mean, that last part about being a future fuckup came true, but like in the cool way where I'm queer.
It would be cool if we could combat sexism in all ways instead of just pretending this shit is a one way street.
You’re conflating systemic with interpersonal racism
The only way to be systemically racist towards white people is to alter the systems we live in to act to their detriment- like by having the government insure the mortgages of black people but not white people out of a desire to economically disadvantage white people
Simple interpersonal racism doesn’t exactly rise to that level
But interpersonal racism is an entirely different can of worms. You can be racist towards white people. Easily
Though now we’re getting a bit away from the original topic entirely
It's an example, to use a similar scenario to emphasise where the problem lies where it is apparent in another. It's a very useful tool, especially when you want to apply morals and ethics in an equal way.
applying morals and ethics "in an equal way" doesn't work when some groups objectively have more power than others. it's not a useful tool, it's a false equivalency
Not really? You replaced it with a group with an inherent bias....
Like, as you point out, people in prison are more likely than average to be criminals - they're not representative of the average population, so opinions drawn from that group will be negatively skewed.
Dads on a labour unit are not more likely than average to be bad dads. In fact if anything the opposite is true, since etheu are present for the birth. Opinions drawn from that group are far more likely to be representative of the general population than the group you chose for your comparison...
Racial differences can be explained by socio-economic differences so it’s deceitful to use race as a factor when citing differences. Gender differences cannot be explained by other factors (yet at least).
I attributed the large percentage of black people in the hypothetical person’s prison to the unusual number of black people in the area so as to avoid giving credence to racist ideas while still pointing out how just seeing something a lot doesn’t validate racist conclusions. You seem to have accepted the sexist version of this as true but not the racist version and thus see a break in the parallel, but the point I was making was to specifically highlight how people are seeing the sexist version as not sexist when it really should be seen as sexist in the same way that the racist version is racist
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I've read study results showing women on average earning less than men when comparing identical roles and experience/skills.
Yes since it can be explained by socio-economic differences, it’s sexist to say women are less deserving of a salary than men for example.
Straight cis men out-scale all other categories in terms of violence and neglect. As a result it’s easy to conclude that it’s non-socio-economic factors since gay men are the category they’re being compared to and therefore the “fault” of straight men. But in reality, this just hasn’t been studied enough.
Wait... You don't think gender norms are influenced by social or cultural norms? You think men are biologically incapable of being attentive in a delivery room? Really?
I think most differences are explainable by social, cultural and economic differences. But that there's not enough research to explain why so many straight men show this pattern (as compared to gay men or non-pregnant lesbian partners).
If it is a biological reason, I don't want to accidentally discount it. Drawing on mammalian populations, there are a lot of species where mothers care more for their offspring than fathers. If it is a biological reason, then isn't it sexist to have equal expectations on both genders?
Personally I would believe it's a socio-economic reason unless it's proven otherwise. I just made my comment because we don't have the research to explain the differences yet unlike race based differences. I guess I could have worded that more clearly considering the downvotes.
I'd assume so, but we don't know that for sure. Imagine blaming women for not being able to carry heavy loads and saying it's a socio-economic factor? If there is a biological reason, then all the comments here jeering men would be awful and I don't want to be a part of it.
There is common sense and loads of research indicating behavioral differences between genders have a social basis.
You can assume women are physically weaker because of a physical difference and men behave differently in the delivery room because of a social difference.
Either way it's biased and rude to act shocked when a woman lifts a heavy box or when a man supports his partner.
We’re not in disagreement. Nor am I acting shocked. It seems you dislike the fact that I’m leaving space for alternate explanations when this very specific behavior has not been researched yet.
It is not always the case that you can just replace the groups in one scenario with other random groups and have the situation remain the same. Different contexts are different. In the words of a classic tumblr post, “But what if a man said this about a woman?” “But what if a mouse said this about a Kia Sorento?”
The comparison literally doesn’t make logical sense because an OBGYN who describes husbands being unsupportive during birth is talking about something she saw happen in front of her. A corrections officer who assumes all the Black people in their prison were rightfully convicted is making an assumption. It is literally a completely different situation.
Women and people who work with women discussing patterns that they have noticed of men treating women badly is not sexism against men. It is disgusting to compare a hypothetical discussion of witnessed misogyny to the systemic over-incarceration of Black people as though those things exist in even remotely the same league of harm.
Do you think that any time any person makes an observation about a group, it’s an appropriate comparison to say, “But what if a prison guard hated Black people?”
No, any time a grup is stereotyped you can check it by replacing the group with another one that is commonly agreed as not OK to negatively stereotype.
If you think the groups that are ok to stereotype or make fun of are dictated by the social climate and not on general objectivity, then I don't know what to say.
The example fits - it describes a job where the experience with a specific group without any thought given might give someone a negative opinion of said group.
It literally does not. First of all, partners of women in an L&D ward are a fairly random sample of the population of new fathers. Incarcerated Black men are not a random sample of the population of Black people. Second of all, an OBGYN in this position is reporting on something she is seeing happen with her eyes. A prison guard who thinks all the incarcerated Black people in their prison are guilty is making an assumption. And a OBGYN saying “many new fathers don’t act supportive of their partners” is nowhere near the scope or harm of a prison guard saying “Black people are criminals.” These situations are not the same and it’s frankly offensive to compare them.
How are they a "random sample"? 100% of fathers is not a random sample, unless you mean a random sample of men, then still it's not random, it's selected.
The comparison isn't about the severity or harm of the claim, it's about showing that there is the same fundamental mechanism underneath them, and I all honesty, as a man of color I find it disturbing you don't see it.
I literally said, “Partners of women in an L&D ward are a fairly random sample of the population of new fathers.” Meaning, it is more reasonable to form an opinion of how new fathers are likely to behave based on working as an OBGYN than form an opinion on Black people bases on working in a prison. But to be clear, I don’t even think that’s what the OP would theoretically be doing, I think she would be making a relatively light-hearted joke about something she observes at work.
And fundamentally, I just disagree with you. Not every situation is the same. And I think it’s offensive to compare women discussing lived observation of sexism to the way prison guards treat Black inmates. Why don’t you check your bias around women.
Lol now minsadryst expression are now considered "light jokes", the fact that a person acts impressed about a men showing support to their partners is not a light joke as you want to paint it, imagine if a women do something good for their parents, another man comes in a make a "joke" like this.
I think you have to much resentment towards mens to see how bad it is to put down men in general the moment you see them doing something good
Men neglecting their partners while they give birth is an act of misogyny. Pointing out patterns of misogyny when it is observed is not an act of hate against men. The attempt to paint it as one is an attempt to shame women into being silent.
I have given reasoning in multiple comments, but I’ll do it again. This situation is so far removed from the situation being discussed that it is comical.
1. An L&D worker who comments that men in her clinic are frequently not supportive of their partners is reporting on something she sees with her eyes. A prison guard who assumes that all of the incarcerated Black people in his prison are guilty is making an assumption. This part of OP’s comment, the idea that a corrections officer only sees prisoners post-conviction, so he is somehow at once a) totally justified in thinking they’re all guilty but also b) perpetuating a harmful stereotype by being surprised that one is innocent, is so incoherent that it feels like OP wanted to just make a general case about a corrections officer who interacts with Black criminals and therefore is racist toward Black people, but they realized they can’t do that because the case being discussed is about an observation at work, not actually a matter of straight-forward sexism against men.
2. Fathers in an L&D ward are a relatively random sample of new fathers. Incarcerated Black men are not a random sample of Black people. It is more reasonable to draw an assumption from the former than the latter.
3. An L&D worker saying that she has observed men being unsupportive of their partners does nowhere the near the harm to men in general than is done to Black men by racist corrections officers, and men being ribbed on TikTok is nowhere near the same situation as the over-incarceration and prison abuse of Black men. It is offensive to discuss these like they’re the same.
Overall, you can’t respond to every case of a person saying something about a group with, “But what if a prison guard hated Black people? Isn’t that kind of exactly the same thing?”
You guys are actually killing me. Taking a woman a making a joke on TikTok and saying “Um, but isn’t this kind of exactly the same as a corrections officer who thinks all Black people are criminals?” is a jump-the-shark-level argument. It is on the same level as going, “You know who else made jokes about other groups of people? HITLER.”
So what you’re saying is that we should replace it with a hypothetical about a nurse talking about black people instead of men, rather than the one about prisons so that it more closely resembles what’s actually being spoken about then because prisons are too extreme compared to hospitals? Ok
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u/Mountain-Resource656 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
“I, a corrections officer for a region in which there is a statistically anomalously high black population, express surprise when it turns out that the black inmate turned out to be innocent all along, because usually I don’t happen to see that happen, given the fact that all my prisoners are post-conviction, and am phrasing this as ‘when your black inmate ends up released because it turns out the prosecution messed up and they were innocent all along’ with an image of my face very surprised but don’t worry it’s not racist because I legitimately see a lot of bad black people”
Edit: also, pointedly, other commenters are saying that in the original video it was actually s response to the man getting slapped for saying this, and not about the man saying this, so the actual original person wasn’t being sexist but the person taking the screenshot was just some rando