More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner who has probably seen countless births so if she is surprised it's because it isn't something they see all the time not because she's taking a jab at men or whatever.
I don't think it can just be labeled as sexism though because they haven't given a reason or trait that makes men not be there for their partners. Some are in the room but keep their distance, some are right next to their partner, some don't even make it into the room .
“I, a corrections officer for a region in which there is a statistically anomalously high black population, express surprise when it turns out that the black inmate turned out to be innocent all along, because usually I don’t happen to see that happen, given the fact that all my prisoners are post-conviction, and am phrasing this as ‘when your black inmate ends up released because it turns out the prosecution messed up and they were innocent all along’ with an image of my face very surprised but don’t worry it’s not racist because I legitimately see a lot of bad black people”
Edit: also, pointedly, other commenters are saying that in the original video it was actually s response to the man getting slapped for saying this, and not about the man saying this, so the actual original person wasn’t being sexist but the person taking the screenshot was just some rando
Not really? You replaced it with a group with an inherent bias....
Like, as you point out, people in prison are more likely than average to be criminals - they're not representative of the average population, so opinions drawn from that group will be negatively skewed.
Dads on a labour unit are not more likely than average to be bad dads. In fact if anything the opposite is true, since etheu are present for the birth. Opinions drawn from that group are far more likely to be representative of the general population than the group you chose for your comparison...
Racial differences can be explained by socio-economic differences so it’s deceitful to use race as a factor when citing differences. Gender differences cannot be explained by other factors (yet at least).
I attributed the large percentage of black people in the hypothetical person’s prison to the unusual number of black people in the area so as to avoid giving credence to racist ideas while still pointing out how just seeing something a lot doesn’t validate racist conclusions. You seem to have accepted the sexist version of this as true but not the racist version and thus see a break in the parallel, but the point I was making was to specifically highlight how people are seeing the sexist version as not sexist when it really should be seen as sexist in the same way that the racist version is racist
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I've read study results showing women on average earning less than men when comparing identical roles and experience/skills.
Yes since it can be explained by socio-economic differences, it’s sexist to say women are less deserving of a salary than men for example.
Straight cis men out-scale all other categories in terms of violence and neglect. As a result it’s easy to conclude that it’s non-socio-economic factors since gay men are the category they’re being compared to and therefore the “fault” of straight men. But in reality, this just hasn’t been studied enough.
Wait... You don't think gender norms are influenced by social or cultural norms? You think men are biologically incapable of being attentive in a delivery room? Really?
I think most differences are explainable by social, cultural and economic differences. But that there's not enough research to explain why so many straight men show this pattern (as compared to gay men or non-pregnant lesbian partners).
If it is a biological reason, I don't want to accidentally discount it. Drawing on mammalian populations, there are a lot of species where mothers care more for their offspring than fathers. If it is a biological reason, then isn't it sexist to have equal expectations on both genders?
Personally I would believe it's a socio-economic reason unless it's proven otherwise. I just made my comment because we don't have the research to explain the differences yet unlike race based differences. I guess I could have worded that more clearly considering the downvotes.
I'd assume so, but we don't know that for sure. Imagine blaming women for not being able to carry heavy loads and saying it's a socio-economic factor? If there is a biological reason, then all the comments here jeering men would be awful and I don't want to be a part of it.
There is common sense and loads of research indicating behavioral differences between genders have a social basis.
You can assume women are physically weaker because of a physical difference and men behave differently in the delivery room because of a social difference.
Either way it's biased and rude to act shocked when a woman lifts a heavy box or when a man supports his partner.
We’re not in disagreement. Nor am I acting shocked. It seems you dislike the fact that I’m leaving space for alternate explanations when this very specific behavior has not been researched yet.
I'd be surprised if this hasn't been researched but I'll concede that I haven't read any. I'm not bothered by room for other explanation, but I don't think there should be any doubt that men are physically capable of supporting their partners, as this is evident. I wasn't saying you were shocked; I was referring the the OP. Have a good day, mate.
It is not always the case that you can just replace the groups in one scenario with other random groups and have the situation remain the same. Different contexts are different. In the words of a classic tumblr post, “But what if a man said this about a woman?” “But what if a mouse said this about a Kia Sorento?”
The comparison literally doesn’t make logical sense because an OBGYN who describes husbands being unsupportive during birth is talking about something she saw happen in front of her. A corrections officer who assumes all the Black people in their prison were rightfully convicted is making an assumption. It is literally a completely different situation.
Women and people who work with women discussing patterns that they have noticed of men treating women badly is not sexism against men. It is disgusting to compare a hypothetical discussion of witnessed misogyny to the systemic over-incarceration of Black people as though those things exist in even remotely the same league of harm.
It’s sexism when it’s sexism and observation when it’s observation. I wish you luck maturing enough to break out of the “everything in the world is exactly the same” mentality.
The part where it converts from "observation" to sexism is when you try to say anecdotal evidence is universal when that is not accepted in any other context.
Literally where on earth would she be making a universal claim. If I work at a grocery store, and I make a comment about being pleasantly surprised to see someone actually return their grocery cart, am I making an offensive universal claim that no customers ever return their carts to the cart return?
You would be pleasantly surprised if people often don’t return their carts, just like an OB worker would be pleasantly surprised if they frequently noticed men not supporting their partners. A person is allowed to notice and comment on it when, due to work, they often see people not doing something that they believe everyone should do.
The essentially “universal claim” is that no one returns the cart. Otherwise the comment would not be worth making when one person does return the cart.
Let me get this straight. You’re at work. And a coworker says, “Oh I’m so relieved, they actually returned the carts for once so I don’t have to go get them 😅.” Your response to that would be “Woah, woah, let’s not make any hasty universal claims here. It’s not true that customers never return the carts.” ?
Gender and sex are protected classes in a legal context. When people use that phrase in a colloquial manner, we’re typically talking about groups that have historically been discriminated against, which men haven’t. It is not sexist for women to jokingly discuss observed sexism, just like it isn’t racist toward white people for people of color to jokingly discuss observed racism or offensive to straight people for gay people to jokingly discuss observed homophobia. I refuse to “take the L” about sliding into a norm where women have to apply a dozen “not all men” equivocations and caveats in order to discuss our lived experiences or else be called bigots because men’s feelings are hurt.
To put it plainly. You are sexist and should reflect on that. I have 3 children and have been to 2 different hospitals L&D. Maybe it is wildly different where you are, but in both places 1000 miles apart, nearly every single woman was accompanied by a man.
There are many factors on why a man may not be present.
He could be on assignment in the military.
He could be taking care of a sick elderly person.
He could be at work when her water broke.
He could be at home taking care of the other children they have.
They could have broken up prior to having the baby.
I could go on and on and on about scenarios that prevent the father from being there. The fact that you jump to neglect and/or abuse just shows that you are sexist. It's ok to admit that.
Let me be so clear: I have no dog in the fight of how supportive men typically are in the hospital. But I will defend the right of a woman who actually works in that context to express the observation that, according to her experience, men behave in an unsupportive manner (not just are absent) without her being called a bigot for doing so. That’s what I actually care about, the idea that women describing their experiences as women not automatically be shut down because men’s feelings are hurt by women’s suggestion that sexism still exists.
Talk to me like I’m an idiot all you want, I think you’re demonstrating a fairly low level of reading comprehension if that’s what you took away from my comment.
It is the meaning behind what you say. I didn't call you an idiot. I think you are just blinded by your hatred of men to the point where you jump on a talking point based on your opinion. Sexism exists both ways. Men and women can be sexist.
I don't hate men. But I do believe that sexism against women is still pervasive and I don't automatically doubt it when someone tells me they've experienced it. To a lot of men, this is the same as hating them.
For the record, I don't believe you hate women, but I do think you seem overly sensitive and prone to be dismissive of women's viewpoints.
So, it’s ok for you to draw a generalized conclusion about how these situations play out from your observations the 3 whole times you’ve been on a labor and delivery ward, but not ok for someone who works in labor and delivery on a daily basis, presumably for years, to draw a generalized conclusion from their considerably greater observations? (Or for women in this thread who have also actually given birth to say that this is in line with their own experience).
Also, I’m sorry, but for you to say that when you were in the hospital for the birth of your own child, nearly every woman was accompanied by a man…how did you draw that conclusion? Were you visiting all the other delivery rooms? Just popping by to check on everybody’s progress? And even whatever you did see doesn’t tell you the whole story. Plenty of men are in the room, but are completely unsupportive and detached from what is happening. I have multiple nurses in my family, in addition to the dozens of OB/L&D professionals I’ve encountered through my own pregnancies, and it is not uncommon for men to be unhelpful assholes in the room. I’ve been told multiple stories of fathers bringing their whole PlayStation setup and playing video games through the birth of their child.
The funny part is this video op posted was the man getting slapped, not shock at a man being supportive. The conclusion was drawn by ppl like you. I could only provide anecdotal evidence to the contrary and so can you. My point is that the logic is flawed. And yes, I can tell through observations. You can walk by a room or when the couple is walking by.
Of course there are men out there that aren't all in on it and helpful. It's not a black and white issue. There are a lot of nuances to everything in life, so instead of jumping to man hated and widening the gender divide, take a breath.
Mfs feel so smart saying “but what if the roles were reversed,” when that would totally change the situation and context… Yeah it would and should be perceived differently because it’s fucking different
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u/hopelesslysad7256 Apr 24 '26
More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner who has probably seen countless births so if she is surprised it's because it isn't something they see all the time not because she's taking a jab at men or whatever.
I don't think it can just be labeled as sexism though because they haven't given a reason or trait that makes men not be there for their partners. Some are in the room but keep their distance, some are right next to their partner, some don't even make it into the room .