More like it's uncommon to see in her work . If it were a random saying it then I'd say it's sexism but it's a whole medical practitioner who has probably seen countless births so if she is surprised it's because it isn't something they see all the time not because she's taking a jab at men or whatever.
I don't think it can just be labeled as sexism though because they haven't given a reason or trait that makes men not be there for their partners. Some are in the room but keep their distance, some are right next to their partner, some don't even make it into the room .
Yeah, it’s like calling women drama queens. Since men agree most women are drama queens, calling them drama queens is not sexist.
Except of course it’s sexist.
Both of the above is sexist.
Most men stay with their wife / girlfriend when she’s giving birth and show her support. Don’t know a single father who hasn’t unless he didn’t make it in time. Those who can’t make it regret it their entire lives.
Why is your anecdotal knowledge of the handful of fathers you know and how they behaved in the delivery room more valid or accurate than the repeated daily observations of someone who works in labor and delivery on a daily basis, seeing multiple patients a day, presumably for years?
Because I've also spent years working in hospitals and have my own contradictory anecdotal evidence.
Now you have to decide...are you just going to pick the version that confirms your pre-existing bias - in which case this is all in bad faith - or perhaps actually ignore all anecdotal stories and assume there is some sort of availability bias at play across all parties?
I ran a diabetes clinic, meaning i hired that same health staff.
And you know what, there are a shitload of nurses who are anti-vaxxers. So again, you want to just believe the ones who conform to your bias? or maybe actually look at real data?
Yes, that’s exactly my point. They’re both anecdotal evidence, so why is he so quick to say that her anecdotal evidence is incorrect sexist nonsense, but his incredibly vague anecdotal evidence of I haven’t personally seen that so it never happens is enough to say that “most men are present and show support”.
And honestly, yeah if I’m going to take someone’s anecdotal evidence more seriously, it’s the nurse’s. Where does everyone seem to think this unbiased objective empirical evidence on this question would come from exactly? Surveying men and saying “were you supportive?” Is that unbiased? Are unsupportive men likely to answer that question honestly? Are you willing to take the women’s word for it whether their partners were supportive enough? That might be biased too. At least nurses are 3rd party observers who see a huge number of these events over a wide cross section of people.
You mean the nurse that most likely doesn’t even exist? The one this meme made up for another gender war slop meme? Is that the person who’s worked in labor and delivery for years you are referring to?
Are you being deadass? Thats exactly what they do. Everyday i see a "headline" thats just a meme with an AI pic/video and an entirely madeup scenario attached. To take it a step further I'm finding entire accounts meant to make "content" featuring a person that is entirely AI.
In this the case the screenshot is deliberately taken out of context and the "nurse thats seen a bunch of dads be unsupportive" is a fabrication because thats not what this woman was saying at all.
Wow you're dumb. Comparing the difference in anecdotes between someone with say ten at most versus someone whose job it is involves them seeing multiple cases a day? "Hurr durr dey both anecdote"
You're still using the opinion of only one person, no matter how much experience they have, as a basis for making a sweeping declaration. Do you understand the various reasons why it's important to gather multiple data points? Her opinion is inherently biased, and I don't even mean consciously. Maybe she works in an area with a lower average income and the father isn't able to leave his job because it's the only thing keeping them afloat. Maybe she works in a particularly wealthy area, and that group of men is more likely to not attend childbirth, so her opinion is colored by that to mean ALL men are more likely to not attend. Maybe she works in a super liberal area that has many more queer couples, and she has an even smaller pool of fathers to pull examples from. Maybe she's only been working there for a week. Maybe she works during a time of day where people are more likely to have obligations that keep them away. Do you see what I mean?
You know literally nothing about this woman other than the fact that she's in scrubs. Even if she had 50 data points to the layman's 1, it's not anything close to a study, or accurate statistical data. Would I value her opinion based on her experience over mine? Yes, absolutely, but no one should be arrogant enough to say that their experience is unequivocally the norm. I would rely on data to form an opinion.
This one nurse is not the only source of this information. Many, many, L&D nurses will say that it is not uncommon for men to either be absent from the room, or, and what I am actually talking about, unsupportive in the delivery room.
For the record, I don’t doubt that at this point, a numerical majority of fathers are physically present in the delivery room. That is not my point, nor is it the point of the nurse in the OP post. It is that even when in the room, it is very common for fathers to be unsupportive.
It’s also more than a little silly to lecture me about crediting anecdotal evidence because it isn’t a sufficient sample size of empirical evidence, and then cite to a “study” that is literally just phone interviews with TEN MEN on their subjective perspective of the experience of being involved in the delivery process. If someone has been an L&D nurse two weeks they would be able to observe and provide more unbiased objective data on the presence and involvement of fathers in the room than that.
God I love when I say anecdotal evidence is silly and someone responds by telling me "well lots of people say X!" I have friends that are nurses, lemme call them quick, and if they say that they've seen plenty of fathers be present and supportive during the birth then your point is invalid right? Of course you could then find another nurse that says they aren't, but then I could find another nurse that says they are.
Granted, you miiiiiight be able to figure out another way to prove your point, like finding another nurse that says they aren't. Buuuuuut, by that same coin, I might just find another nurse that says they are.
And so on and so forth.
Yes those aren't the best studies in the world, I found them from 2 minutes of Googling, not even using Scholar. But you saying that a single person is going to be able to provide an unbiased point of view is already ridiculous, let alone that you're saying you'll take their opinion formed over the course of 2 weeks as gospel. I mean this feels like stuff people were supposed to learn in high school. Anecdotal evidence is useful for guiding your research, not replacing it.
I think those situations aren't equal at all.... One is an insult towards women in a derogatory way and the other is surprise at a difference in streotype/prejudice.
Use a better example like: It's like finding out a woman wants to go back to work immediately and the dad is quiting his job to raise the baby and do the housework.
Both are sexisim (showing a prejudice) but your example was not on equal footing at all....
And also confusing >> calling them drama queens is not sexist. Except it is sexist
I was talking about the dude calling the women drama queens, which is an insult to women.
A more appropriate comparison to "Men are seen as unsupportive fathers" would be assuming that the woman would always stay at home to look after the baby.
Because they both make an assumption of a prejudice and bias that is expected of their parental roles, mother's quiting their jobs and fathers not being active. Calling women "drama queens" is not a good comparative because it's an insult that is used to belittle women's emotions and opinions, not their parental expectations.
What the fuck. Why is race brought into this?? Do you argue with people like this all the time, make assumptions (an ass out of you an me) because you have this prejudice towards certain opinions and then yes because they have this opinion they must have this opinion. I'm going to be sexist and and ass and assume you're a man, because omg you are so defensive take a chill pill it's your time of the month.
People don’t belittle women’s parental expectations as a stereotype. That would be like criticizing a man’s emotional state when making decisions as being a drama king. It doesn’t make sense because it’s not a stereotype.
Assuming that a man is disengaged and a bad partner and father is a stereotype and is an insult. I’m not sure how you don’t see that.
Nobody belittled women’s involvement in childrearing. If the stereotype is that dads don’t do it, and you’re saying that people accuse mothers of not doing it, then who is doing it?
Women are expected to give up everything for the children and if they're not happy 100% of the time they are seen as bad mother's. It's belittling because if you try to get a job as a mother with a new born most people either see your as incapable or you won't be active at work because your baby comes first.
Men are expected to not get too involved with their child and any attentiveness is seen as "gay" or not masculine. If you want to be a SAHD it's seen as a woman's role and "you must not wear the pants in the relationship".
Both are belittling because they diminish the parental roles into archetypes that negate the personality and wishes of either party. It's sexism is both senses.
Don't be such a drama queen, this isn't a personal attack on you honey. Check your menstrual cycle because your hormones are acting up. Do I need to explain sexisim again to you or will you get emotional.
Who is the one doing the belittling in this scenario you’ve decided to pivot? Is that men casting judgement on women for returning to work? It’s an extremely narrow subgroup that can afford a SAH parent of either gender. These things are entirely in your mind. It reminds of that meme of a woman complaining that she wishes she could wear the same outfit two days in a row. Men aren’t the ones who care about those things that you’re describing. You’re fighting your own social media feed.
You know how I know that you’ve realized that you’re wrong? That little tirade you added there. What is that? Do you think my position is that women don’t experience any sexism at all? I’m lost on the new goalpost you’re setting.
This is such a little argument you're having over nothing. You're taking my points to the extreme, claiming things I've never said and things that aren't relevant. Who are you arguing against? Me??? Why, to say what??? That SAHD are a privilege?? Okay and??? What has it have to do with my initial statement that the comparative is unbalanced. You're so focused on me for some reason.
I'm sorry if you felt my comment was insensitive or belittling. I just have no clue why you're so mad over a problem that is non-existent.
My level of urgency is like 1-2 for this discussion but you seem to keep positioning it at a 5-6.
white people experience prejudice they dont experience systemic racism. your argument is in bad faith and based in the idea that everyone currently alive is experiencing equal treatment.
I'm not saying bad people don't exist I'm saying the joke is that the nurse is surprised that a man is active in child birth and parenting. Same with a surprise that woman will be going back to work and the dad stays home.
They're both scenarios that defy parental expectations. Both can be taken as an insult to character, none is calling the other a known insult that mocks the emotional intelligence of one gender.
The person's example was inappropriate in the scenario as they're not comparable situations. We don't need to insult women to make a point...
What is your argument. It seems like you're fighting this because you believe that women don't face any adversity at all. And men must be the victims in this. That's my strawman argument because why are people so desperate to prove me wrong when never even said "this isn't a sexist joke" I THINK IT IS SEXIST however the comparison the man used was not a good comparison. It was shit.
Im not arguing to change your mind, I'm just stating that calling women drama queens =/= men being stereotyped as inattentive during fatherhood
They're not balanced comparison. They're two completely different situations that should not be compared in this discussion.
Most men are present for the birth now but this is a massive cultural shift from 20 years ago when most were not present. And given the cultural shift in which men are getting partnered (“male loneliness epidemic”), it makes sense that mostly better quality present men are getting partnered and becoming fathers.
Those men who would’ve been less present are now complaining about being lonely.
Just as you've only had experience with the father's actually being there there are plenty of people including myself who have seen the opposite where the father just straight up never showed up because it turns out they're not exactly a great person
Her being positively surprised would either mean it's uncommon in her experience or she just generally thinks it's good/cute. Both would be fair assessments when she's only sharing her personal professional experience. The point of the post may even be supposed to be wholesome by promoting the positivity of being a healthy couple. There's a bunch of possible explanation for the post that don't try to throw any shade.
The comparison to the "drama queen" thing isn't apt. Even if we take the post in a negative way it's still a positive thing being presented with a negative implication. I don't think that compares to a direct insult
Edit: scrolled down and apparently it's a video with a wholy different context so the speculation and accusations here are moot either way
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u/Dr-Assbeard Apr 24 '26
Chris here, the joke is sexism, she doesn't expect a man to be present and supportive durig childbirth